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	<title>Comments on: Elitism in Schools Isn&#8217;t Such a Bad Thing</title>
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	<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/</link>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-4451</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-4451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bob - I think you might want to take another go at reading my post. The point was that we can create the same sense of elitism found in private schools within the public school system itself. 

My kids attend public schools. Our district has done a good job of creating a healthy mix of magnet, traditional and basic schools. Every school offers unique programs with a specific number of spots. This creates a competitiveness within the system for students wanting to get hose spots, a feeling of accomplishment and &#039;elitism&#039; for those that make it in and it also creates an illusion of exclusivity. Both of my kids had go through an admissions process to get into their respective schools. The process was not difficult or all that rigorous but they felt special when they got their acceptance letters in the mail. They actually brag about their schools standardized test scores. This is rare in public schools but can easily be duplicated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob &#8211; I think you might want to take another go at reading my post. The point was that we can create the same sense of elitism found in private schools within the public school system itself. </p>
<p>My kids attend public schools. Our district has done a good job of creating a healthy mix of magnet, traditional and basic schools. Every school offers unique programs with a specific number of spots. This creates a competitiveness within the system for students wanting to get hose spots, a feeling of accomplishment and &#8216;elitism&#8217; for those that make it in and it also creates an illusion of exclusivity. Both of my kids had go through an admissions process to get into their respective schools. The process was not difficult or all that rigorous but they felt special when they got their acceptance letters in the mail. They actually brag about their schools standardized test scores. This is rare in public schools but can easily be duplicated.</p>
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		<title>By: BOB WATKINS</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-4448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BOB WATKINS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-4448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The basic premise of your argument is that if we make something exclusive and expensive then it will get better. One, by your own admission there was not anything fundamentally different about students or teachers at your beloved high school. Two, if we take your argument to a logical end basically what you are saying is that all schools should have admissions, charge tuition. Ok, what would happen? my guess is a good chunk of the population would not be formally educated all. For those who could education would be turned in to more of a hyper competitive game than it already is. Parents especially lower income ones, which you conveinently ignore that the wealthy don&#039;t have this dilemma and are over represented at elite institutions, would have to be perpetually concerned about tuition, little Billy and Jane might have to go out and get jobs to help out. Of course considering the wonderment that is American society maybe our trusty banks can start issuing &quot;primary education loans&quot; that can be paid by the kids until they are in their 50&#039;s. I am certain the debt will make them appreciate their education more....  I have gone to public schools from grade school up through my PhD, education is what you make of it.  The idea that we need more artificial barriers to overcome to make people like you feel &quot;special&quot; is absurd on to many levels to count.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The basic premise of your argument is that if we make something exclusive and expensive then it will get better. One, by your own admission there was not anything fundamentally different about students or teachers at your beloved high school. Two, if we take your argument to a logical end basically what you are saying is that all schools should have admissions, charge tuition. Ok, what would happen? my guess is a good chunk of the population would not be formally educated all. For those who could education would be turned in to more of a hyper competitive game than it already is. Parents especially lower income ones, which you conveinently ignore that the wealthy don&#8217;t have this dilemma and are over represented at elite institutions, would have to be perpetually concerned about tuition, little Billy and Jane might have to go out and get jobs to help out. Of course considering the wonderment that is American society maybe our trusty banks can start issuing &#8220;primary education loans&#8221; that can be paid by the kids until they are in their 50&#8242;s. I am certain the debt will make them appreciate their education more&#8230;.  I have gone to public schools from grade school up through my PhD, education is what you make of it.  The idea that we need more artificial barriers to overcome to make people like you feel &#8220;special&#8221; is absurd on to many levels to count.</p>
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		<title>By: Progressive Conservative</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-544</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Progressive Conservative]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 15:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-544</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The primary difference between private schools and the majority of public schools is attitude. In private schools the foundation for that attitude comes from two sources: one is access, i.e. kids are &#039;elite&#039; because they were fortunate enough to have parents who paid their tuition. The second is expectations. The parents of private school kids generally take more interest in their kids education and hold those kids to a high standard. The schools themselves also set the bar high.

I have seen both of these factors duplicated in public schools. Elitism through access can be created through admission standards to some public schools. This of course presents a problem for the other kids who don&#039;t gain access and the other schools that must accept everyone. That may be where it is necessary to have internal progranms at the schools like honors-level classes, a good art program, quality music education, etc. The point is to create niches for as many kids as possible where they feel special and &#039;elite&#039; for some reason. Then you link continued inclusion in that niche to grades. 

The second factor i.e. expectations is the more easily duplicated. You seem to brush off the prospect of students, teachers (and parents) caring more about academics. I suppose you think a child of disinterested parents and teachers will do well simply because he is in a private school? To the contrary, my experience with private schools was that some of my fellow students did very poorly despite the thousands of dollars their parents spent on their education. 

We have to start being honest with people, especially much of our lower-income population, and telling them that their attitude towards their childrens&#039; education is the most easy to solve variable and also the most critical. It costs nothing but the potential for benifits are enormous. 

It&#039;s unfortunate to hear attitudes like yours because it is definitely a glass-half-full mentality and that kind of attitude is why public school students tend to fail. it also ignores hundreds of high-performing public schools across the country that have found a formula for success even without students from rich parents.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The primary difference between private schools and the majority of public schools is attitude. In private schools the foundation for that attitude comes from two sources: one is access, i.e. kids are &#8216;elite&#8217; because they were fortunate enough to have parents who paid their tuition. The second is expectations. The parents of private school kids generally take more interest in their kids education and hold those kids to a high standard. The schools themselves also set the bar high.</p>
<p>I have seen both of these factors duplicated in public schools. Elitism through access can be created through admission standards to some public schools. This of course presents a problem for the other kids who don&#8217;t gain access and the other schools that must accept everyone. That may be where it is necessary to have internal progranms at the schools like honors-level classes, a good art program, quality music education, etc. The point is to create niches for as many kids as possible where they feel special and &#8216;elite&#8217; for some reason. Then you link continued inclusion in that niche to grades. </p>
<p>The second factor i.e. expectations is the more easily duplicated. You seem to brush off the prospect of students, teachers (and parents) caring more about academics. I suppose you think a child of disinterested parents and teachers will do well simply because he is in a private school? To the contrary, my experience with private schools was that some of my fellow students did very poorly despite the thousands of dollars their parents spent on their education. </p>
<p>We have to start being honest with people, especially much of our lower-income population, and telling them that their attitude towards their childrens&#8217; education is the most easy to solve variable and also the most critical. It costs nothing but the potential for benifits are enormous. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate to hear attitudes like yours because it is definitely a glass-half-full mentality and that kind of attitude is why public school students tend to fail. it also ignores hundreds of high-performing public schools across the country that have found a formula for success even without students from rich parents.</p>
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		<title>By: SpuriousGeorge</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SpuriousGeorge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 07:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re really just describing a paper-tiger version of elitism.    All you&#039;ve said is that students benefit from receiving an elite private education.  Well, sure they do.  And in many cases, they continue to benefit for the rest of their academic and professional careers, even when they haven&#039;t earned those extra benefits.  They tend to be given special benefits based on the reputation of the school they attended  (e.g., scholarships, admissions to elite colleges, internship opportunities).  Sorry, but you&#039;re conveniently ignoring the basic problem:  most students would benefit from &quot;elite&quot; education, yet very few have access to it, so the innocuous benefits that you describe become an engine of inequality.  And by the way, you have your head in the clouds if you think that the only difference between elite and non-elite schools is that the elite students and teachers care more about their school and their academics.  Students at elite schools (whether they&#039;re public or private) do tend to have relatively wealthy, educated parents.  Students without rich/ educated parents are very unlikely to have access to elite primary or secondary education.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re really just describing a paper-tiger version of elitism.    All you&#8217;ve said is that students benefit from receiving an elite private education.  Well, sure they do.  And in many cases, they continue to benefit for the rest of their academic and professional careers, even when they haven&#8217;t earned those extra benefits.  They tend to be given special benefits based on the reputation of the school they attended  (e.g., scholarships, admissions to elite colleges, internship opportunities).  Sorry, but you&#8217;re conveniently ignoring the basic problem:  most students would benefit from &#8220;elite&#8221; education, yet very few have access to it, so the innocuous benefits that you describe become an engine of inequality.  And by the way, you have your head in the clouds if you think that the only difference between elite and non-elite schools is that the elite students and teachers care more about their school and their academics.  Students at elite schools (whether they&#8217;re public or private) do tend to have relatively wealthy, educated parents.  Students without rich/ educated parents are very unlikely to have access to elite primary or secondary education.</p>
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		<title>By: hall monitor</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hall monitor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For all the craziest headlines in our schools, check out http://detentionslip.org!  Voted #1 for school house news.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For all the craziest headlines in our schools, check out <a href="http://detentionslip.org" rel="nofollow">http://detentionslip.org</a>!  Voted #1 for school house news.</p>
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		<title>By: ladybughugs</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ladybughugs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think part of it is that when you attend public school you take it for granted. It&#039;s there. It&#039;s something you HAVE to do, something you have to &#039;get through&#039;. You can&#039;t take a private school for granted. You have to work for it, earn it. It takes more... more money... more work... higher standards. Once you&#039;ve earned it you get to take pride in it. Pride in your accomplishment.

It&#039;s true, too, that there&#039;s a greater sense of family in a private school. Everyone works for the private school. More fund-raising means more of a connection to the parents standing next to you. The ones with whom you are in the trenches. Those that are invested in its success. They become like family.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think part of it is that when you attend public school you take it for granted. It&#8217;s there. It&#8217;s something you HAVE to do, something you have to &#8216;get through&#8217;. You can&#8217;t take a private school for granted. You have to work for it, earn it. It takes more&#8230; more money&#8230; more work&#8230; higher standards. Once you&#8217;ve earned it you get to take pride in it. Pride in your accomplishment.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true, too, that there&#8217;s a greater sense of family in a private school. Everyone works for the private school. More fund-raising means more of a connection to the parents standing next to you. The ones with whom you are in the trenches. Those that are invested in its success. They become like family.</p>
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		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-343</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think it would be unwelcome.  It&#039;s important to know that elitism isn&#039;t just about being smart, it&#039;s about having the will to become smartER, and to wish the same happiness on others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it would be unwelcome.  It&#8217;s important to know that elitism isn&#8217;t just about being smart, it&#8217;s about having the will to become smartER, and to wish the same happiness on others.</p>
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		<title>By: Progressive Conservative</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Progressive Conservative]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 05:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ames,

I don&#039;t think Dana would welcome my input, but thanks for the suggestion. I understand the lack of fundage. Until recently I mostly donated my time instead of my money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ames,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Dana would welcome my input, but thanks for the suggestion. I understand the lack of fundage. Until recently I mostly donated my time instead of my money.</p>
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		<title>By: Progressive Conservative</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Progressive Conservative]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 05:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-339</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NP,

Catholic schools were a fantastic experience for me and one that i rank up there with a good family and the Boy Scouts for having formed me into the good person I try to be. 

Any time you want a little more insight I&#039;d be happy to share. You know where to find me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NP,</p>
<p>Catholic schools were a fantastic experience for me and one that i rank up there with a good family and the Boy Scouts for having formed me into the good person I try to be. </p>
<p>Any time you want a little more insight I&#8217;d be happy to share. You know where to find me.</p>
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		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://progressconservative.com/2008/07/12/elitism-in-schools-isnt-such-a-bad-thing/#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/?p=178#comment-335</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well said.  I would contribute to my school - which has a similar ethic, I think - but money is short in the law school... and I have other giving priorities in the short term...

Have you considered submitting this to Carnival of the Elitist Bastards?  It&#039;d be a heartwarming, and important, take on the issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said.  I would contribute to my school &#8211; which has a similar ethic, I think &#8211; but money is short in the law school&#8230; and I have other giving priorities in the short term&#8230;</p>
<p>Have you considered submitting this to Carnival of the Elitist Bastards?  It&#8217;d be a heartwarming, and important, take on the issue.</p>
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